Home•The Latest•Panthers’ Draft Day Trade Results

Panthers’ Draft Day Trade Results

May 3, 2015 Bill Voth 2015 NFL Draft, News Daryl Williams, Devin Funchess, Panthers

The Panthers opted to shoot for quality over quantity. Will the two players they picked outplay the other choices they could’ve had?Draft grades and snap judgments are dumb. We’ll find out that answer in a few years.

FIRST TRADE

CAR Rd. 2/No. 41 from STL:

Devin Funchess, WR, Michigan

STL Rd. 2/No. 47 from CAR:

Rob Havenstein, OT, Wisconsin

STL Rd. 2/No. 89 from CAR:

Sean Mannion, QB, Oregon St.

STL Rd. 6/No. 201 from CAR:

Bud Sasser, WR, Missouri

SECOND TRADE

CAR Rd. 4/No. 102 from OAK:Daryl Williams, OT, OklahomaTB Rd. 4/No. 124 from OAK via CAR:Kwon Alexander, OLB, LSUOAK Rd. 5/No. 161 from CAR:Neiron Ball, OLB, FloridaOAK Rd. 7, No. 242 from CAR:Dexter McDonald, CB, Kansas

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I actually like our prospects more besides Rob Havenstien he is the only guy who was picked from those we traded away that could have done decently on the Panthers
Potato

I actually like our prospects more besides Rob Havenstien he is the only guy who was picked from those we traded away that could have done decently on the Panthers
Panthers/Truth

This article is just trying to make the stupid trades look good, if they had kept these picks, they wouldn’t have made the same picks these teams did. Here are some of the players the Panthers could have chosen with these picks, if they hadn’t been traded

1st Trade:

2nd (#57) – OLB Randy Gregory ((#60), WR Jaelen Strong (#70), RB Tevin Coleman (#73), DE Owamaghe “Owa” Odighizuwa (#74), WR Chris Conley (#76), RB Duke Johnson (#77), RB David Johnson (#86), or WR Sammie Coates (#87).

3rd (#89) – DT Carl Davis (#90), LB Paul Dawson (# 99), OT Daryl Williams (#102), or CB/S Josh Shaw (#120), DE Za’Darius Smith (#122).

6th (#201) – WR Darren Waller (#204), DE Anthony Chickillo (#212), DT/DE Kristjan Sokoli (#214), NT Deon Simon (#223), WR Dezmin Lewis (#234), WR/Returner Mario Alford (#238), FS Gerald Holliman (#239), or RT Corey Robinson (#240).

2nd Trade:

4th (#124) – RB Buck Allen (#125), WR Rashad Greene (#139), FS Adrian Amos (#142), OLB Davis Tull (#148), RB Jay Aiayi (#149), or OLB Shaq Riddick (#158).

5th (#161) – WR Kenny Bell (#162), DT Michael Bennett (#180), OT Tyrus Thompson (#185), CB Charles Gaines (#189), or FS Derron Smith (#197).

7th (#242) – LT Laurence Gibson (#243), WR Tre McBride (#245), CB Darryl Roberts (#247), or SS Akeem King (#249).
- Panthers/Truth
  
  Now here is who I would have chosen with those traded picks, so who would you have chosen?
  
  Trade #1:
  2nd (#57) – WR Chris Conley (6’1 7/8″, 213, 4.35-40, 45″ vertical, and 11’5″ broad jump).
  3rd (#89) – OLB Davis Tull (6’2 3/8″, 246, 4.57-40, 1.52-10, 6.76-3 cone, 42 1/2″ vertical, 11″0″ broad jump).
  6th (#201) – DE/DT Kristjan Sokoli (6’5″, 290, and the 2nd highest SPARQ score of 99.8% in the draft).
  
  Trade #2:
  4th (#124) – FS Adrian Amos (6’0 1/2″, 218, 4.37-40, 1.50-10, 2nd highest S SPARQ score of 87.3%).
  5th (#161) – CB Darryl Roberts (5’11”, 187, 4.36-40, 1.48-10, 6.66-3 cone, 39″ vertical, 11’1″ broad jump).
  7th (#242) – RB Corey Grant (5’8 7/8″, 201, 4.16-40, 37″ vertical, 10’7″ broad jump, and 22 bench reps).
  
  Of course my other 3 picks would have been different as well, and here they are:
  1st (#25) – LT Jake Fisher (6’6 1/8″, 306, 10 3/8″ hands, best OT 40, 3 cone, 20 yard shuttle, broad jump, and the top OT SPARQ score of 94.2%)
  5th (#169) – LT Laurence Gibson (6’5 3/4″, 312, 35 1/8″ arms, 10 3/8′ hands, and the 2nd best SPARQ score, of 90.2%).
  5th (#174) – WR Darren Waller (6’6 1/8″, 238, 4.46-40, 1.57-10, 37″ vertical, and 10’5″ broad jump).
  
  Ask yourself are the Panthers are better off after making these trades or not? Or if your choice of these traded draft picks would be even better (please post your selection ideas)?
  - Bill Voth
    
    P/T: This is an example of a post that adds thoughtful conversation to the comments section while also inviting others to share. Thank you.
    - ALAC
      
      Thank you for your stellar coverage, Bill. I really appreciate everything you and your guys do to keep us fed with meaningful information. It is a joy to come here. May the 4th be with you!!!
      - Bill Voth
        
        Appreciate that.
    - Panthers/Truth
      
      Thanks very much Bill, that’s what I always try to do, and that’s why in the other article ALAC’s reply offended me so much, taking a few absolutely true words out of context , trying to make them seem false, and using them for ridicule.
      - Panthers/Truth
        
        Also, thank you very much for discussing this openly, it’s very instructive to others, promotes openness and understanding which helps everyone.
      - ALAC
        
        Whoa there bud, what reply are you referring to? Ridicule? I don’t think so. Disagree? Yea, probably so. Nothing to be offended by though. Enlighten me, please.
  - Daheixiong
    
    So you would pick Jake Fisher in the 1st even though not one team picked him up until the 53rd pick? Also you seem to over value combine numbers while the Panthers (who have had i’d say 2 positive drafts since Gettleman arrived) value in house vetting and game tape more. Just my two cents but you seem very high horsey about this.
    - Cole Smith
      
      Gettleman has been scouting players for 30 years. You have looked at combine numbers, gone to espn or NFL.com, and possibly watched some YouTube highlights….I’ll go with Gettleman
      - Daheixiong
        
        Are you replying to me or to him? Because I agree with everything you say. In fact I say that Gettleman has done well. You either replied to the wrong person or didn’t read my reply correctly.
      - Panthers/Truth
        
        I don’t waste my time with ESPN (except in reply/correct to David Newton) or YouTube.
    - Panthers/Truth
      
      Yes, I would have chosen Fisher higher than he went in the draft, which is exactly what G-man did with Funchess, only I was smart enough not to trade 3 draft picks to do it, giving up 672 Trade Value points for 590 points. Picking Fisher would have given the Panthers one starting quality LT, but now they have none.
      
      If G-man continues to focus on drafting non-athletes, soon the teams overall athleticism will decline to the point they become un-competitive. G-man doubled down on this cockeyed idea by not drafting anyone with above average speed, after both he and RR agreed that improving team speed.
      
      Dropped passes were a problem for the Panthers last season, with Benjamin tying for the 2nd most drops, but yet drafted Funchess, who averaged 8.8%drops. So, how many passes the 2 wide WR’s I selected drop? Conley had only 1 drop last season, and Waller had 0 drops. Both Conley (4.35-40) and Waller (4.46-40) have much better speed than Funchess (4.70, at the Combine like the others, but a Pro Day 4.47-40, which are proven to time .175 seconds faster than the Combine timing method). Conley had 18 deep targets, with 10 catches, for 8 TD’s last season, and Funchess only had half that many TD’s.
- ALAC
  
  The Panthers could have taken any of the players you’re suggesting. The fact that they didn’t should tell you that they didn’t think as highly of them as you do. They weren’t taking anyone with what they deemed to be character concerns, nor were they taking anyone with chronic medicals. Several of your suggestions fall into these categories. The ones that don’t either weren’t scheme fits (as the team sees it) or are players Gettleman wasn’t interested in. I don’t know what more there is to say. No team has ever won a title in May and many draft “winners” are actually losers when the cleats meet the turf. Personally, I think the Panthers had a very good free agency and they had a very good draft, considering our position. Gettleman did what he had to do to get the players he was interested in, and he did so without giving up future picks. That, in itself, is a victory. Whether or not the picks pan out, is yet to be seen, as it is with ever other team in the league. Considering the amount of playing time we’ve gotten from UDFA’s, I’m stoked at the possibilities.
  - Panthers/Truth
    
    G-man himself said such go for broke draft trades were a mistake. G-man misjudged his roster, thinking team is only a couple of players away from a Super Bowl. His trading 6 picks for 2 robs the Panthers of needed depth, which will be revealed later in the season as injuries mount. The Panthers aren’t going to the Super Bowl this year, and G-man mortgaged the Panthers future in order to make a Super Bowl run a year too soon.
    
    ALAC, you just proved my point, your already counting upon UDFA’s. Your correct, FA was good, but not the draft. G-man did nothing to improve the pass rush in the draft or FA, after it dropped by a third last season (from 60 down to 40, without Hardy’s 1 sack, it’s down to 39 sacks). He also did nothing to help a suspect secondary in the draft, and repeated his mistake from last season, by going cheap on the O-Line, without an adequate LT.
    - ALAC
      
      You are twisting Gettlemans words with your statement, and I disagree that they were “go for broke”. Gettleman said that “you don’t want to lose the value of those top 3 picks”. Based on his grades, he drafted players with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round grades, so no value was lost there. All that giving up the late round picks did was cause them to have to, in Gettlemans words, “chase” a couple more UDFA’s for the back of the roster.
      
      You’re also twisting my words to fit your argument. No one is “counting on” UDFA’s. It is, however, nice to know that we can get production out of them if we need to. The pass rush was addressed last season, with the drafting of Ealy. He was coming along nicely towards the end of the season. Frank Alexander is a force, not that dissimilar from Hardy, if he could just keep his head on straight and stop being suspended. Our secondary was also getting much better towards the end of the season, and there’s no reason to think they won’t continue to get better. Depth in that area was addressed in free agency with Peanut Tilliman. I can’t argue much on the O-line, and you might be correct, but I’m holding out hope for Oher to get us through. He’s a better option than Bell ever was, that much I’m sure of.
      
      We all get it, you think you could build a better football team than Dave Gettleman. I highly doubt it, but good for you if you can. The fact is, people grow weary of the constant negativity and the “know it all” attitude you continue to put forth. I’m not a moderator, so feel free to carry on, but don’t be surprised if you don’t make many friends.
Panthers/Truth

This article is just trying to make the stupid trades look good, if they had kept these picks, they wouldn’t have made the same picks these teams did. Here are some of the players the Panthers could have chosen with these picks, if they hadn’t been traded

1st Trade:

2nd (#57) – OLB Randy Gregory ((#60), WR Jaelen Strong (#70), RB Tevin Coleman (#73), DE Owamaghe “Owa” Odighizuwa (#74), WR Chris Conley (#76), RB Duke Johnson (#77), RB David Johnson (#86), or WR Sammie Coates (#87).

3rd (#89) – DT Carl Davis (#90), LB Paul Dawson (# 99), OT Daryl Williams (#102), or CB/S Josh Shaw (#120), DE Za’Darius Smith (#122).

6th (#201) – WR Darren Waller (#204), DE Anthony Chickillo (#212), DT/DE Kristjan Sokoli (#214), NT Deon Simon (#223), WR Dezmin Lewis (#234), WR/Returner Mario Alford (#238), FS Gerald Holliman (#239), or RT Corey Robinson (#240).

2nd Trade:

4th (#124) – RB Buck Allen (#125), WR Rashad Greene (#139), FS Adrian Amos (#142), OLB Davis Tull (#148), RB Jay Aiayi (#149), or OLB Shaq Riddick (#158).

5th (#161) – WR Kenny Bell (#162), DT Michael Bennett (#180), OT Tyrus Thompson (#185), CB Charles Gaines (#189), or FS Derron Smith (#197).

7th (#242) – LT Laurence Gibson (#243), WR Tre McBride (#245), CB Darryl Roberts (#247), or SS Akeem King (#249).
- Panthers/Truth
  
  Now here is who I would have chosen with those traded picks, so who would you have chosen?
  
  Trade #1:
  2nd (#57) – WR Chris Conley (6’1 7/8″, 213, 4.35-40, 45″ vertical, and 11’5″ broad jump).
  3rd (#89) – OLB Davis Tull (6’2 3/8″, 246, 4.57-40, 1.52-10, 6.76-3 cone, 42 1/2″ vertical, 11″0″ broad jump).
  6th (#201) – DE/DT Kristjan Sokoli (6’5″, 290, and the 2nd highest SPARQ score of 99.8% in the draft).
  
  Trade #2:
  4th (#124) – FS Adrian Amos (6’0 1/2″, 218, 4.37-40, 1.50-10, 2nd highest S SPARQ score of 87.3%).
  5th (#161) – CB Darryl Roberts (5’11”, 187, 4.36-40, 1.48-10, 6.66-3 cone, 39″ vertical, 11’1″ broad jump).
  7th (#242) – RB Corey Grant (5’8 7/8″, 201, 4.16-40, 37″ vertical, 10’7″ broad jump, and 22 bench reps).
  
  Of course my other 3 picks would have been different as well, and here they are:
  1st (#25) – LT Jake Fisher (6’6 1/8″, 306, 10 3/8″ hands, best OT 40, 3 cone, 20 yard shuttle, broad jump, and the top OT SPARQ score of 94.2%)
  5th (#169) – LT Laurence Gibson (6’5 3/4″, 312, 35 1/8″ arms, 10 3/8′ hands, and the 2nd best SPARQ score, of 90.2%).
  5th (#174) – WR Darren Waller (6’6 1/8″, 238, 4.46-40, 1.57-10, 37″ vertical, and 10’5″ broad jump).
  
  Ask yourself are the Panthers are better off after making these trades or not? Or if your choice of these traded draft picks would be even better (please post your selection ideas)?
  - Bill Voth
    
    P/T: This is an example of a post that adds thoughtful conversation to the comments section while also inviting others to share. Thank you.
    - ALAC
      
      Thank you for your stellar coverage, Bill. I really appreciate everything you and your guys do to keep us fed with meaningful information. It is a joy to come here. May the 4th be with you!!!
      - Bill Voth
        
        Appreciate that.
    - Panthers/Truth
      
      Thanks very much Bill, that’s what I always try to do, and that’s why in the other article ALAC’s reply offended me so much, taking a few absolutely true words out of context , trying to make them seem false, and using them for ridicule.
      - Panthers/Truth
        
        Also, thank you very much for discussing this openly, it’s very instructive to others, promotes openness and understanding which helps everyone.
      - ALAC
        
        Whoa there bud, what reply are you referring to? Ridicule? I don’t think so. Disagree? Yea, probably so. Nothing to be offended by though. Enlighten me, please.
  - Daheixiong
    
    So you would pick Jake Fisher in the 1st even though not one team picked him up until the 53rd pick? Also you seem to over value combine numbers while the Panthers (who have had i’d say 2 positive drafts since Gettleman arrived) value in house vetting and game tape more. Just my two cents but you seem very high horsey about this.
    - Cole Smith
      
      Gettleman has been scouting players for 30 years. You have looked at combine numbers, gone to espn or NFL.com, and possibly watched some YouTube highlights….I’ll go with Gettleman
      - Daheixiong
        
        Are you replying to me or to him? Because I agree with everything you say. In fact I say that Gettleman has done well. You either replied to the wrong person or didn’t read my reply correctly.
      - Panthers/Truth
        
        I don’t waste my time with ESPN (except in reply/correct to David Newton) or YouTube.
    - Panthers/Truth
      
      Yes, I would have chosen Fisher higher than he went in the draft, which is exactly what G-man did with Funchess, only I was smart enough not to trade 3 draft picks to do it, giving up 672 Trade Value points for 590 points. Picking Fisher would have given the Panthers one starting quality LT, but now they have none.
      
      If G-man continues to focus on drafting non-athletes, soon the teams overall athleticism will decline to the point they become un-competitive. G-man doubled down on this cockeyed idea by not drafting anyone with above average speed, after both he and RR agreed that improving team speed.
      
      Dropped passes were a problem for the Panthers last season, with Benjamin tying for the 2nd most drops, but yet drafted Funchess, who averaged 8.8%drops. So, how many passes the 2 wide WR’s I selected drop? Conley had only 1 drop last season, and Waller had 0 drops. Both Conley (4.35-40) and Waller (4.46-40) have much better speed than Funchess (4.70, at the Combine like the others, but a Pro Day 4.47-40, which are proven to time .175 seconds faster than the Combine timing method). Conley had 18 deep targets, with 10 catches, for 8 TD’s last season, and Funchess only had half that many TD’s.
- ALAC
  
  The Panthers could have taken any of the players you’re suggesting. The fact that they didn’t should tell you that they didn’t think as highly of them as you do. They weren’t taking anyone with what they deemed to be character concerns, nor were they taking anyone with chronic medicals. Several of your suggestions fall into these categories. The ones that don’t either weren’t scheme fits (as the team sees it) or are players Gettleman wasn’t interested in. I don’t know what more there is to say. No team has ever won a title in May and many draft “winners” are actually losers when the cleats meet the turf. Personally, I think the Panthers had a very good free agency and they had a very good draft, considering our position. Gettleman did what he had to do to get the players he was interested in, and he did so without giving up future picks. That, in itself, is a victory. Whether or not the picks pan out, is yet to be seen, as it is with ever other team in the league. Considering the amount of playing time we’ve gotten from UDFA’s, I’m stoked at the possibilities.
  - Panthers/Truth
    
    G-man himself said such go for broke draft trades were a mistake. G-man misjudged his roster, thinking team is only a couple of players away from a Super Bowl. His trading 6 picks for 2 robs the Panthers of needed depth, which will be revealed later in the season as injuries mount. The Panthers aren’t going to the Super Bowl this year, and G-man mortgaged the Panthers future in order to make a Super Bowl run a year too soon.
    
    ALAC, you just proved my point, your already counting upon UDFA’s. Your correct, FA was good, but not the draft. G-man did nothing to improve the pass rush in the draft or FA, after it dropped by a third last season (from 60 down to 40, without Hardy’s 1 sack, it’s down to 39 sacks). He also did nothing to help a suspect secondary in the draft, and repeated his mistake from last season, by going cheap on the O-Line, without an adequate LT.
    - ALAC
      
      You are twisting Gettlemans words with your statement, and I disagree that they were “go for broke”. Gettleman said that “you don’t want to lose the value of those top 3 picks”. Based on his grades, he drafted players with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round grades, so no value was lost there. All that giving up the late round picks did was cause them to have to, in Gettlemans words, “chase” a couple more UDFA’s for the back of the roster.
      
      You’re also twisting my words to fit your argument. No one is “counting on” UDFA’s. It is, however, nice to know that we can get production out of them if we need to. The pass rush was addressed last season, with the drafting of Ealy. He was coming along nicely towards the end of the season. Frank Alexander is a force, not that dissimilar from Hardy, if he could just keep his head on straight and stop being suspended. Our secondary was also getting much better towards the end of the season, and there’s no reason to think they won’t continue to get better. Depth in that area was addressed in free agency with Peanut Tilliman. I can’t argue much on the O-line, and you might be correct, but I’m holding out hope for Oher to get us through. He’s a better option than Bell ever was, that much I’m sure of.
      
      We all get it, you think you could build a better football team than Dave Gettleman. I highly doubt it, but good for you if you can. The fact is, people grow weary of the constant negativity and the “know it all” attitude you continue to put forth. I’m not a moderator, so feel free to carry on, but don’t be surprised if you don’t make many friends.

Black and Blue Review

Black and Blue Review

Panthers’ Draft Day Trade Results

FIRST TRADE

SECOND TRADE